Can revenue growth be explained by a single equation? | Nick Erickson (Narrative Brand Labs)

Hello everyone and welcome to The Play by Quotain, where we sit down with sales leaders to talk about scaling teams, coaching reps, and the future of selling. I'm your host, Alex Talamonti, co-founder and CEO of Quotain. And today I'm joined by Nick Erickson, founder of Narrative Brand Labs, a fractional go-to-market firm and author of the upcoming book, Revenue by Design. Nick's journey is an interesting one. He went from studying journalism and rhetoric to cold calling and has since sourced over forty-five million dollars in pipeline. His approach to sales comes down to a simple equation: story plus strategy times system equals revenue. Nick, welcome to the show and thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be on.

Great. Well Nick, you started out studying journalism. I'm really

Yes.

curious, how did you end up in B2B sales?

So it actually predates my journalism experience by a little bit. So I've been in sales for 17 years now and I got my first start in sales actually at Sears Lawn and Garden, which clearly dates me. There's not many Sears around anymore. But I was selling lawn mowers at Sears and that was my first sales job. I was 17 years old and it was super fun for me just as a teenage job. I was making commission plus a little base pay on the bottom. I learned a lot. But going into college, I wasn't really a business guy. I didn't seek going into business and started off wanting to do journalism. I spent a lot of time in college being on the student newspaper. I created a lot of content. I actually ran a San Diego Chargers sports blog where I published seven articles a week and ran their Twitter feed. And so really kind of dabbled a lot. And what I was really interested in is just using my writing ability, developing my writing ability and ultimately wanted to do something in content or, as I kind of made it through college, wanted to do a little bit of teaching, ultimately fell back in love with, B2B sales. And then my first B2B job was cold calling. And what I kind of discovered there was like all that stuff, all that constant creation served me well because when I sat down and was like, okay, how do you succeed in making cold calls or like cold, emailing people? And it was really kind of like a rhetoric problem, like a story problem. and I even kind of use my old like Sears, like sales knowledge to like reduce it just to like a buyer trying to make a buying decision and trying to budget their time and, really trying to help them make that decision. Cause they all, each buyer has their own unique criteria. And so that was kind of how everything converged and collided. And I was able to use aspects of like my writing and content creation, storytelling to do email marketing and ultimately retail sales to conceptualize this interaction between me in front of a person, just talking about what they're looking for basically.

Gotcha. What, when you were working at Sears, got you interested in that sales kind of work? What was fun about it?

First of all, I was good at it. There was just something kind of natural. Yeah, yeah. Like it was, it was fun.

That helps.

It was a nice challenge. Like it was this kind of game within sales that I really enjoyed. I've always been fascinated that you just kind of talk, you move your mouth, like if you reduce like language to like just mouth movements and sounds, and then all of a sudden, like you kind of shake hands and like money's exchanged and I get commissioned, they get the thing that they wanted. like, when it's done right, there's just this kind of like beautiful equilibrium to sales, where you can, at a salesperson's best, really help them maximize their purchasing decision, which is in today's world where we're all trying to manage money really effectively. There's a certain purpose to sales that I don't think a lot of people see and a craft too within it. And there's a craft in sort of gaining agreements and like, telling a good marketing story that generates leads and like this kind of craft to every layer of this. And I just love that bit as well, in addition to the kind of helping it and also being good at it.

That makes a lot of sense. That sort of purpose of sales, what do you think that is? I mean, I think the way you described it, and I see this as well, really what it is is you're taking someone who needs some sort of item and you as the seller,

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

you want to make money. And so it's like if you meet the right people and say the right number of words in the right words,

Mm-hmm.

then economic value increases for everybody, which is great.

Yeah. This gets me neatly into the main subject of the book, which I kind of reduce it to like this equation. And the equation works really on the buyer side, making a purchasing decision and also on the seller side, trying to close a deal. And the equation goes in a kind of parentheses bracket story plus strategy. And then just to break these down into their individual layers. Story is really like on the buyer side, it's like, what am I looking for in a purchase? what are my buying criteria? how is this going to fit into my life? can I afford it? This is a very emotionally driven part of the buying decision. You're considering things like pain points, how it fits into your life. Like when I was in this gets back to my lawn and garden experience, like people make purchasing decisions based on the contours of the yard and what they feel like they need to. and they align the purchase to what they think they will mow their lawn ultimately. And if there's like a hill on that, that's where the value is created. Like I will pay for a lawn mower that can handle that really tough hill so I don't like hurt my back. And avoiding that pain and solving that pain is value. And it's all about how it fits into my life on the buyer side. then, especially on the B2B side, this is your website. Like this is before they talk to anybody from your sales team. All you are is words and images to your prospects. And they're trying to vet you like, do I trust you? Am I going to look like an idiot if I contact you? And they're really just analyzing and scanning your website for trust signals. So that's the story bit of it. And then kind of in these brackets still is strategy. This is when the analytical mind kind of turns on. This is when you're starting to move away from feelings like, okay, I trust these people to like, can you actually do it? Like, what's it going to cost me? Like all the analytical client questions kind of come in on the buyer side. You know, risk mitigation and all those types of things. Is it consistent? That's another big element. Like they say all these things on their website. When I get on a phone call with them, does that track like, or is there like this big gap? Because that's going to cause pause in a buyer. I, those things don't match, like what's the essential offer? Am I starting off like, okay, great story on your website. I trust you, but like, how do we get started? Like the CTA is part of this conversion strategy element of it, which is like, do I get a quote? How fast do I get a quote? Like what you're doing with the, story to strategy is like starting to form that handshake really. Like you're starting to, with your website demonstrate like, here's what it's like to work with us. Here's the great things about working with us. Here's how easy it is to work with us. All of these types of things. here's how we fit into your life. And that's kind of this first part of this bracket is demonstrating how you fit into your life and then really offering ways to make it easier and easier to do business with you. And ultimately to like ink that first deal. And then outside of that, there is the multiplication layer, which is system. That's your rev ops,

Okay.

your sales process stuff. And the reason why that's multiplicative is because, It allows you to follow best practices at scale. If you're really doing the first part of the equation correctly, you're going to have so much success that you're going to drown in your own success at the system layer. Like it's actually a problem of success that like, it's like, okay, we're generating all these leads. We're closing a lot of business. We got to figure out how to do this. Cause we're all of sudden adding a bunch of work.

It's like kind of scaling problem.

Yeah, it is a scaling problem. And that's why the system layer really allows you to multiply it. It allows you to like figure out. what is working and what's not, lock in what's working, tweak what's not, maybe get away what's not, and then really just start to see yourself as a data-driven organization that also tells a good story and makes a really compelling offer that's hard to turn down. And all of that's not a magic bullet, but it's really a mathematically-based way to grow your business.

Gotcha. I'm thinking about story. How

Yeah.

much of that is actually like a story where it's just like, you gave the example of the lawnmower, you've got a hill

Mm-hmm.

in your backyard, you don't want to push it up, you don't want to hurt your back. That's not really a monetary or like a time sort of pain, right? It's just kind of like reaching the human and saying, Hey, this is you can imagine a scenario where this would happen and you're hurting your back. But we've got this automatic lawnmower for you where you can drive it up or something. Right.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How much of it in story would you say is actually story versus just like, okay, let me walk you through where you're actually getting the ROI here? Like is this a combination or do you really mean like specifically that story bit?

It is both, right? Because I mean, the ROI piece of it is part of that story. The pain point side of it and the pain relief side of it is one element. And that's what kind of creates the value. like the ROI component is like the ROI. All right. Like, does this match this? Like, does my ROI really give me like, do I feel like this is this pain point is worth this ROI? And can I make that investment? So they really are tied together. I talk about in the book, being a rhetoric nerd, I obviously had to start the book off with a couple of chapters about why I think words are just incredibly powerful, especially in sales and marketing. I think that gets

Okay.

kind of pushed down a little bit. And what we're talking about here is rhetorical appeal. like ROI is like a very logical type decision making. It's logos, if you remember like freshman composition and then like relieving pain would be things like pathos. And then like your ethos is just like, that brand building that trust layer, like all of your client stories, like, Hey, we've helped similar people like you, like we, get you, we know your problem. And so it is all components of it. And I almost, coined the term in the book brand to brand sales, because it really is like ROI and like pain point fixing. It's all part of this, like I'm a business. And I am a brand, I have an identity, our team does XYZ and you have these problems and needs. And here's how we help and fit into your life. And here's how we kind of tether into your business and help you scale because that's the system layer on the buyer side that they're really looking at. Like, okay, cool. Great story. I, that would be nice if I didn't have to worry about, X problem or whatever, but like, how does this help me really go to the next mile? Because as a business, that's where this buying committee concept comes in. Talk about champions all the time, but in today's B2B purchasing world, that's almost always a group of about six or 10 more. And it's a diverse group of people from like quality or IT and procurement, all thinking about things a little bit differently, but they're all trying to represent the business, the brand. And they all want the business to succeed. None of them wants to look stupid for making a poor business decision. And so everyone's being very protective. And they collectively as a team have to see how it fits in their story. has to make sense to them dollars and cents wise. And there is a certain amount of just like, I could see us working with them too. That's another kind of story layer on your website where it's just like picturing what it's like to work with you and like what life will be like after they have worked with you is a really powerful thing because creating that mental image helps the comfortable part of making a B2B purchase. Cause like there is a lot of like championing that you have to do. and a hill to climb to make anything over $50,000 happen in a purchase, a B2B purchasing environment. You got to stick your neck out and there's some stressful things to it. And so there's little carrots that do kind of get you through that stuff. And some of it's ROI and some of it's more of that, like, we should really work with these people. They're local or whatever.

Right. A lot of times nowadays when people are finding solutions, not just B2C, but even B2B, they're getting that through recommendations from chatbots. How do you think

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

or do you even think that this actually changes when the first reader of your website or your materials, not a human, but actually ChatGPT?

Yeah. Yeah. It changes it in a few levels, but it also doesn't change it all that drastically. So first thing I would say is, that all of the things that we learned from SEO, and building a website that attracts qualified traffic still matters in AEO, GEO. Like those, those are concepts that still apply. does change a little bit because we're more towards like a zero-click type of environment. there's things to strive for. Like new things to strive for, in a content strategy, named frameworks, like the story plus strategy times system is an example of a named framework that we adopted. So it's like a, it's a math problem that we can kind of own and it's searchable and all of the characters fit on your keyboard. someone like could type it and that will all link back to us. And ChatGPT likes and all AI models like novelty, like they like new things. They, especially when it's supported, like novelty for its own sake. But novelty when there's like links and stuff like that pointing towards it. This is again, where SEO and AEO and like interacting with the chatbot are pretty similar because it's trying to recommend things that are other things are recommending. So like when it sees these like topics with a bunch of links going all in and out of it, it's like, that's important. I should like look at all the cursory and it just kind of assesses and builds a mind map of like what's all on the internet, just like Google did. Now. There's some things like named frameworks helps. You do have to change like your content writing strategy to catch more AI search queries. Like traditional search queries are a little more broken English where it's just like

Mm.

very keyword-driven where AI chatbots are a lot more conversational. And so there's a lot more long tail involved. But in reality, it's still. From a content perspective and growing your website and tracking the people, it's really still the same. Like you're going to just want to figure out all of the questions that your buyer is trying to ask themselves. And this gets back to the equation, build content around those. then for search, engine crawlers and for humans, that's going to help the buying process. Cause they're just trying to like understand your buying process, what it takes, what's going to like give them once they are done buying the, making the purchase. And so like just keep building pages around those buyer questions and trying to be the best steward of the buying process for your customers as you can. And AI is going to reward you for that as well.

Gotcha. You bring it all back to trying to help the buyer and it works itself out. Yeah.

Totally, because that's really what sales is. I mentioned this in the book, but as salespeople, we're never going to convince somebody to do so. We can't. We can't force somebody to sign a contract. We are only creating the best possible conditions for success, much like planting a seed. And then you leave the rest up to them. And sometimes it's not the right time. Like I said, this isn't a magic bullet, but statistically, you're going to be putting yourself in the best situation. If you tell a really great story on your website and answer all the buying questions and be a good steward of the buying process and as you sell, it's going to create goodwill and it's going to give them a really good idea of what it's like to work with you and, put you in the best shot to be on that shortlist.

I wanna dive a little bit more into the equation. You've got

Sounds good.

this equation, story plus strategy times system equals revenue.

Mm-hmm.

when you're trying to tackle working with a new sales team, what's the first variable of the equation that you look at that's gonna have the biggest impact?

Yeah. So, as part of like our kind of system layer, and just to like, work with all of this information that I'm talking about, like buying committees of like six to 10, like we have kind of an interesting sales process or like intake process. So basically, what we do at Narrative Brand Labs is create revenue or growth formulas is what we call them using that revenue equation. So a revenue formula is just a set of tactics that are completely customized to your business. And to get that, we need to learn a little bit more about you as a business to be able to build that formula and figure out how you grow, how your customers want to find you and all those good things. And so we do a 25-question initial kind of like diagnostic. And what we typically like to do is have multiple members of like a decision-making committee take that. And that gives us this composite score, if you roll them all up into a go-to-market maturity score. But then also you can just get this like really nice variance to see like where all the opinions in the room are. We completely anonymize it so like no one like starts fighting or whatever over the results. Like, "I can't believe you said that." We take all that off. We have place for comments and stuff like that. And what it does is you kind of see this kind of tapestry of like opinions across like, we think we should be doing this better. Like, why aren't we doing this? Are buyers like this? And like you just kind of develop. Even if it's a messy starting place for consensus, like you start to be like, okay, here's where some people agree. That's good. Like we can build off of that. And here's where people disagree. And then let's do some education around that. And then also build a strategy kind of around those areas that score low. So the diagnostic, and that's also like a health check-in that we'll do continually with our customers is like everything that we pitch. And this is ROI model as we're doing proposals is like. We think that this engagement is going to take you from this score where you scored yourself today to here. And we explain the math of like how we think that's going to happen. And so what that does is we're creating some type of consensus for getting people involved. We're not trapping our champion that originally contacted us to try to defend this purchase all on their own. We're, bringing in different members of their sales and marketing team to weigh in on this. we're presenting the readouts and ultimately the proposals to those wider groups. So that's where we'd start is we'd start with the diagnostic. We'd figure out like where the opinions are, where people, I'd say one of the biggest areas that we like to start is like if there are just complete unknowns, like if a company says like, we don't know our most profitable traffic source, like, or we don't know what traffic source brought us any pipeline, like that's a big, like you should know that like data gaps are like something we try to fix immediately.

Mm.

just because like, it's the system layer, it's that would be the system layer.

Does that fit in the strategy piece? Okay, okay.

But it's also like another reason why system is a multiplying layer, but you can't, if you don't know how those first two are doing, you can't tweak them at all. Like I could write a beautiful website, but if I don't know the traffic, how can I make it any better on an ongoing basis? I'd be guessing at every change that I make. And I wouldn't know if it's moving the needle at all. So it's just that awareness layer. like I see so many teams, like, I don't know, my pipeline, like pipelines, like not being tracked at all right now. I'm like, so how do know your win rate? Like where would you even start? And giving you that data is one of the first areas where it's just like, if you don't have data right now, we need to start collecting some. And then we can start to move the needle and work on some other low hanging fruit. But that would be the diagnostic. to figure out like where people's feelings are at, what feels like it needs to get done, fixing obvious data gaps, and then, kind of whatever else comes out of that initial diagnostic.

Gotcha. Are there any particular examples you can think of of egregious measurement gaps where you're like, wow, I'm surprised that this wasn't something that was being measured.

yeah. I, yeah, I mean, pipeline all the time. Like people, they're smaller companies, like sales and marketing teams who have not seen traffic reports from their marketing agency. they don't know where they're ranking for keywords, certain like very important keywords. they're spending money on ads and don't know like how much return pipeline made it in. I've seen like prospecting campaigns going for six months and like. don't even know the connect rate and things like that. And that's where it gets, and this is why it's one of the first things we fix is that it's just so costly. Sometimes like if you're spending money on ads and you don't even know what you're getting out of it, that's an easy line item in the budget to optimize if you can just understand what it's giving you back and what you might be able to improve to give you something more back.

Yeah, certainly. I mean if you can't measure it, you can't improve it, right? Yeah.

And prove it.

gonna take this in a completely different direction. But if we fast forward ten or twenty years, the world's been changing a lot the past few years, right?

Mm-hmm.

Ten or twenty years we go forward. What do you hope

Mm-hmm.

the job of a salesperson actually looks like? Do you even think people will be selling?

That's a question. I think maybe to start that question, we'd have to go back 20 years. So like 2006.

Okay.

We're probably sending a lot of emails. Now we got like AI. I mean, I do think it's going to get a lot more agentic. there are concerns I have with AI, kind of polluting itself and us maybe running out of like quality training data, which is why I'm like a huge advocate

Mm.

of like having AI being a partner. Like I talk a lot in my content just about like, AI can be a force multiplier in either way. Like I see just tons of people. And I saw this at the beginning of my cold calling career too. They were just actually writing the emails instead of like drafting them with ChatGPT. But like just really bad sales emails that like, I can't believe people are honestly sending. Like I've seen ones that are 500 words and I'm just like, how did you expect someone to read

Wow. I say.

this? Yeah, like it's like a college essay. I'm just like, you didn't sincerely think someone was going to read this. Like you sit here and read it. had people be like, you're right, I can't even make it through my own email. And so I think we're going to interact with AI a lot more, but I think that we really shouldn't lose the human layer of it. think AI gets better the more we participate and worse, the less we do. So think just as a SDR saying, like, Type me a, an email to this prospect is probably going to cut it less and less. just because the volume on those types of messages is increasing at an alarming rate. And me personally, just in how I do it on my pipeline, I'm also finding that cold calls are kind of back in. I think people are much more,

Yeah. So we're finding that as well.

people are a lot more receptive to being cold called than like, I almost think that it's kind of, it's got this, dare I say almost nostalgic kind of feel to it, where it's just like, It's refreshing. I've gotten cold calling them a while, but especially now, like with political times, like with midterms kind of coming up and like, I get political calls a couple of times a day. And it's just like, the texts too. And between that and not a low, value offer, like if you can just pretty quickly make your case work through a couple of objections and then just say like, I'm contacting you specifically because you work in this role and we help you, people like you in this role with this problem. usually it's like, okay, that's relevant enough. And guess people are pretty open. I'm seeing like a kind of a Renaissance in like, if you can just do that kind of base level sales stuff, then, you can kind of book meetings that way. And I think what I'm seeing in the kind of, contrast, that is like over indexing on like automation, everything right now, like, like so much talk right now about trigger based everything. And like, for some good reason, there's a lot of cool things you can do with like, passing data back and forth and like data enrichment and like how you can use like Claude and like Apollo and like to pull lists and stuff like that and pull them down in your serum. A lot of cool stuff, but like, think that you can do it for its own sake without being like, again, getting back to just kind of that most important question is how's my customer going to think of this? Like, is this message going to be well received and like, and like, do you think that it reflects well on your brand? If it's like a low, not very well edited, like kind of AI

Yeah.

slopped. As a brand, you should ask yourself those questions. And if you're willing to make that trade off of like, am I willing to let my marketing team just send an AI email that's been very little edited and have that reflect on me? lot of people are going to have to ask themselves that question. Same thing with sales too. Like, do I think that it's an effective strategy to cold email someone something that I straight up just did one prompt and yeah,

You didn't even read.

and I didn't edit any em dashes out or anything. I just took that what it gave me in the first response and then just clicked on your email and then hit send. I think I did my job well. that's, just, we're going to have to ask ourselves some of these like kind of critical questions. And it really just comes down to like, sure, you can get. a piece of activity, but it's just like doing dumb stuff faster kind of thing. Like, is that really going to bring you results? And so I think what we will find getting back to like the real question is like over 20 years, I think we're going to probably eliminate a lot of those bad habits of just like trusting AI wholesale. I hope anyways,

Mm.

that we'll get more sophisticated in how we partner with it to like extend our ideas. Like for instance, like with the book, like I had something to do with it, but like We started out with interview questions that I recorded on video. We did a ton of research. We had that threaded in there. like we, anytime we made edits to it, we would like specifically tell it and give it a new piece of writing to like adjust the overall like structure of the argument and where to put in these points. And like, it was very much a partnership. Like we didn't just make the book like, give me one long book. And like, I just want to slap. Like I cared about the quality. And I think we all got to kind of like have a level of care about. And that's been sales this kind of thing for a while. And since an email really like there's been like, let's just blast thousand emails and that'll do it. It's just like, we're still learning our lesson.

Yeah, you really wanna have people associate the brand, it sounds like, with people who actually care about their job quality,

Yeah. Quality. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People that care enough to edit that stuff out and like care what they look like in public too, because that's kind of what it comes down to is like AI will over time. And we already kind of seeing just like general sentiment towards it is just like, it's seen as lazy to just like, to just wholesale. put out there into the world, like stuff with dashes all over. it's just like, people are going to be like, all right, that's, know, they're going to buck it into low quality because like, and it's not that AI always produces low quality. It's just that you didn't take the time to like make it low quality or high quality.

Yeah. I mean, I guess what I'm wondering then is like, do you think that changes like GPT nine comes out and we can't tell if the email was sent by a human or not. Right.

That'll be a whole different thing. Yeah, that's the thing that you can't see right now. I would question whether that's truly possible because like philosophically AI is just doing its best to try to like kind of replicate what our brains are already doing naturally. like I, and it's only given information that already have come out of our brains. Maybe we figure out a way where it can invent new information and stuff like that or new context for itself. but it seems like it's still going to be pretty limited to the boundaries of like language and our own inputs. But maybe, but maybe it'll get that crazy good where it's just, then I don't even know. Then I don't, then maybe we don't even sell anymore. Like if it's really got that good at like things like rhetoric and like, marketing campaigns and like the nuances of positioning and stuff like that. And then. Maybe it's just AI selling to AI. think that was like the plot of the video. was just trades happening. It was bron-do just on the stock market and that was it. Just bron-do.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think that's what we're all still trying to figure out, right?

That was a weird reference at the end. My bad? Yeah, sci-fi reference at the end, but we kind of got adjacent to sci-fi, so I couldn't help myself.

No, we certainly did. I think sci-fi is is closer than it's ever been, that's for sure.

That's for sure. Yeah. And that's why it's, it's, it's germane.

I've got one last question for you. I'm curious, what's something you believe about sales today that most sales leaders would disagree with?

Dealing with reality is better. I think that most sales leaders I've had throughout my career have always tried to look at like the pipeline and everything like that with like the rosy side, which is like the best case pipeline and like, let's not get rid of that deal yet, even though it's probably dead. You know, let's keep it in the pipeline and let it hang around. I don't agree with that. I don't think. think when you let a deal hang around in the pipeline for longer than you know it, it's already dead. you're going to lose context that you can learn from that deal. you're kind of wasting time, on just keep up keeping that record in the CRM. and then you're also sacrificing, think, like kind of that natural adrenaline of like when you close lots of deal. Like there's this kind of natural like, sprint is like, gotta do something. I gotta get, I got to backfill this. Like I think when you, you're almost like kind of like removing nature's natural cycle of that, having that like, should do something when you keep those stale dead deals around. And I've seen it so many times with so many different bosses where it's just like, no, I don't want to like, I'm sensitive to like how the board will look at, the, the pipeline shrinking or whatever. Until we backfill it, we'll keep it in there. But that, like I said, it kind of fights the counterintuitive nature of like, kind of almost need that to drop it out of there to build up the motivation to go find new ones. And plus it just ruins other things downstream. Like your forecast, it, kind of removes a lot of the benefits of doing CRM in the first place. Like CRM should be a source of good data. Like, and if you're

Yeah.

not making data match reality, then. it's just not going to serve you as a tool. And now you're, and now you're kind of wasting your time in more ways than one, not only upkeeping this record, that's not a live deal anymore, but you're ruining your CRM data and like all for what? that's that, I guess that's kind of like my hot take aspect of it. Is this like for what? Like just to, to kind of tuck your tail between your legs and like hide. just, for like, just you can, you got another quarter and hope for the best. Like I just, it kind of gets back to that hope is not a strategy thing.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of salespeople will like, know, say that hope is not a strategy and then still do that thing where it's like,

I still do it, yeah.

yeah. And then still kind of be like, well, we can't do that. Like you got to just accept losses. That's what email nurtures for. I think that you got to think a little more expansively too. Like a no doesn't mean no, never go F off. Like it's like a, could just be a not now. Like we got budget frozen right now. Like, and so just take the loss, mark it in the CRM, make sure their contact info is good and then have backup strategies. Like you don't just get one crack at the bat with a lot of these sales. So think long-term trust the process and, and get rid of bad data. Because it's not serving anybody.

Awesome. Well I think that's a great spot to end this. This has been Nick Erickson on The Play by Quotain. Thanks again for coming.

Thank you so much.